Tamara Littleton 00:12
This is the Genuine Humans podcast brought to you by Social Element. I’m Tamara Littleton
Wendy Christie 00:18
and I’m Wendy Christie
Tamara Littleton 00:19
in our podcast, we’ll discover the stories of the leaders behind the brands and the trailblazers who are making a real difference in our industry. We’ll delve into how they got to where they are today,
Wendy Christie 00:33
and we’ll hear about the genuine humans who supported and influenced them along the way.
Tamara Littleton 00:44
Welcome back to Genuine Humans. I’m here with my co-host, Wendy Christie. Wendy, how are you doing?
Wendy Christie 00:49
I am very well, thank you. How are you?
Tamara Littleton 00:51
I’m good. I’m good. I’m feeling well. I was about to say the joys of spring. I think it’s the joys of pretending it’s spring.
Wendy Christie 00:58
We’re in fool’s spring.
Tamara Littleton 01:01
It’s that optimism that’s coming through. We’re also so happy today to welcome a very special, Genuine Human guest, Aretha Sabeng, who’s joining us today from New York. And Aretha is Director of Marketing at Garnier at L’Oreal we’re so pleased that you’re joining us today. Aretha, welcome to Genuine Humans.
Aretha Sabeng 01:21
Thank you so much. I am super thrilled to be here today. When I heard the title Genuine Humans and I listened to a few other podcasts, I’m like, this is for big people. Why do they want to talk to me?
Tamara Littleton 01:34
Of course, we want to talk to you.
Aretha Sabeng 01:35
So I’m genuinely humbled to be here today.
Tamara Littleton 01:39
Well, we’re so pleased to have you. And what we’re going to do is kick off with something that we do like to ask our guests, which is, obviously, you’ve got to where you are now. I’d love to know what was the journey to getting where you are now, and how did you get into marketing in the first place?
Aretha Sabeng 01:57
I love telling this story. Growing up, I’ve had things I wanted to be, and then I finally settled on being an engineer, because my parents wanted me to do medicine. It’s a thing where I grew up from. If you are good at science and math, then you should definitely go into medicine. And I genuinely don’t think that’s for me. So I had to find something else that I was interested in, and I landed on engineering, and I fell in love. I got my engineering degree in chemical engineering, and then I started my career as a chemical and processing engineer in a beauty manufacturing company in Ghana called PZ Cussons, in Ghana, you have to serve for a year, we call it national service. Once you finish your university education, you need to do one year of national service. Now this is also a very brilliant system, because it also gives opportunities for people fresh out of college to have hands-on experience.
Aretha Sabeng 03:04
During my national service period, the company, for the first time, started a management training programme. I went there as a process engineer. I was in a factory of over 200 males, and there were only two females So myself and the executive assistant to the factory manager, who was amazing, by the way, that had a very significant impact on how my career progressed since then, because right from the get-go, I was put in what you would call an impossible situation. First being the only female and the youngest amongst men trying to tell them what to do was not easy. You know, most of them saw me as a daughter or as a niece or as a kid sister. Nobody saw me coming from a place of having the knowledge to guide them to do what they’re doing, because some of them had been doing what they’ve been doing for 20 years plus. So they’re like, “oh, you know, these younglings come from the university, and they think they know everything”, kind of mindset. But I will be happy to share that with intentionality. I won some hearts and my job started to become a bit easier. So I would say, right from the get-go, I had to always find a way to fit within the space that I was put in.
Aretha Sabeng 04:28
Back to the management training. When they kicked off the management training programme, they enrolled some of the national service persons, which I was one of, onto the programme, and they were trying to find people from different parts of the business, so sales, marketing, finance, HR, R&I, production. And fortunately for me, I was the only one in production, and so I got on to the management training programme. We kicked off the management training programme. And it was rotational. So we had to rotate through all the departments, because the goal of the management training programme was to develop the next crop of MDs, Head of Marketing, CEOs, COOs, we kicked off. And for me, it was exciting, because I’m always happy to try something new. And that was when I started to get out of the factory, and I discovered marketing through that.
Aretha Sabeng 05:27
I realised that even more than being an engineer and being in a factory and wearing boots and factory coats every single day, I loved talking to people/ Whenever we had a marketing assignment, I would go above and beyond. At this point, I had not even thought of a career in marketing, because of how our system is structured in Ghana. I don’t know if it has changed, because I’ve been out of university pushing 20 years now. It’s either you read sciences or you read what we call humanities. So sciences, as you know, would be your biology, physics, chemistry, or you read economics, history, art. In all my education, I was a science student, so I was absolutely clueless what was happening on the other side of the world, right? I didn’t know it was as exciting. I had no idea. So when I was introduced to the world of marketing, I started discovering that there is something that brings me more joy than being a chemical engineer. So I would attack all my marketing assignments with so much heart, so much passion, so much dedication.
Aretha Sabeng 06:37
This was a very intensive programme. It was like a whole MBA you will do, you will go to the field, and you will do a presentation to senior management and suggest, one, what is going well. Two, what can be improved, ie, opportunities. And three, what crazy ideas do you have? Innovate? You have a white paper. What do you think we can do to win in this space? And it was, it was an amazing experience. So after my marketing presentation, after one of such rotations, I can vividly recall the scene when I was just coming down the staircase to go to my factory. The commercial director at the time met me on top of the staircase, and he goes, “Do you know you have such a good flair for marketing, and you really come with new perspectives all the time, and you really present well, and you really put your all in it. I just wanted to commend you and congratulate you for doing this to the best of your ability.” And I was like, “Oh, thank you!” And he’s like, “Hey, okay, here’s a crazy thought, do you want to, like, try a role in marketing?”
Tamara Littleton 07:49
I love that!
Aretha Sabeng 07:50
Just like that.
Tamara Littleton 07:51
Yeah. Well, that’s testament to those programmes as well, isn’t it that they, you know, give you the opportunity. And you took it.
Aretha Sabeng 07:58
Exactly, and right there I was like, “Yes!” I mean, to be honest, till today, it’s one of the decisions I just made out of a whim. And it’s just, I came from a place of passion and and like, “oh yeah, I would love to do more if you would give me”. You know, I didn’t, I didn’t go back to think like, “oh, in 20 years, this is how my career is gonna evolve”. It was just, it was just purely intuitive and purely through, like my love for the role.
Aretha Sabeng 08:27
So, but what I didn’t consider, and that’s why I gave you the feedback of the science versus the humanities, was that marketing was purely humanities and chemical engineering was like purely science. So that was my first big hurdle in my career, another one where I had to, like, find the way around learning the humanity side of what my education didn’t give me. So I had to go deep into economics, pricing, and marketing strategies. I was, like, clueless, absolutely clueless. I had to learn everything from, like, ground zero, and have to do extra than everybody. So after doing my job or doing what I was told to do, I had to take the time and put in extra hours to also understand the background, like, what do the people who do marketing very well have, because I cannot just come in with passion and innovation. I also need the tactical and the technicality of doing the job as well.
Tamara Littleton 09:27
Yeah, learning on the job.
Aretha Sabeng 09:29
Learning on the job!
That’s how my marketing career kicked off, and it was beautiful. I mean, once I got a hold of a job, we were coming up with crazy ideas, executing. And one thing I loved about marketing was where I spent almost a year in a factory, compared to like six months in marketing. I had travelled to almost all the regions in Ghana, which otherwise I would never have like it would never have happened. And this is when I discovered that I love to travel, because back when I was in university, the UK government, you know, we’re in the Commonwealth, so the UK Government will give visas to students to come for like a summer in the UK. At the time I had a friend of mine whose parents who were, like, willing to host me. I had to get my own visa. I had to get my own ticket and basically figure everything out myself to get a visa in Ghana before, because of all the paperwork, you would get an agent to fill the visa forms for you to ensure that you’re doing it right. And my dad was like, “I’m not gonna pay anybody to fill a form for you when I pay for your education. So go figure it out. If you get the visa, we can talk about plane ticket.”
So I literally just went to the embassy. I picked up my forms – those days, it wasn’t electronic, you had to go in person, pick up paper. I remember the lady who gave me the form. She’s like, “Oh, who’s your agent?” I’m like, “I don’t have one”, and I’m a really tiny, 19 year old girl who has come to she’s like, “Okay, I mean, I’m here to give you the form. So take it.” I took the forms. I remember running around everywhere asking questions about how to fill it, how to get it right. I did everything myself. I had two other friends who had an agent, and I was so jealous. So I went through it myself. I submitted, and I submitted with my friends that day, with their agents looking so cool and bougie, you know, here I am with my brown paper. The lady takes it, checks everything, and she’s like, Okay, go. Thank you. Here is that twist. I’m the only one that got the visa.
Tamara Littleton 11:37
No! You were better than the agent.
Aretha Sabeng 11:43
That would be like the first time I travelled outside of Ghana when I was, I think, my first or second year in the university, because I wasn’t expecting it. So I wasn’t really prepared, right? And so at that time, when I travelled to the UK, I discovered so many things, I was like, wow, like, things are so different on the other side of the world, because I have lived in my bubble for so long. So for me, that was the first step.
Aretha Sabeng 12:12
And so when I went into marketing, bringing it back to my career, and I started travelling, I realised that I love discovering people, I love discovering places. I love discovering new food and cultures. And I haven’t been doing it because it hasn’t been something that I have been exposed to in the past. So when I joined marketing and I started to travel, I loved it, and I put in my oh, I kept pouring in, and I was like, Ah, this is a fun, fun, fun role. And other people are like, “Are you crazy? You are everywhere all the time. You’re a young woman, you would have to get married one day. No one wants a woman who’s all over the place. No one wants a woman who always has an opinion. No one. So it’s a woman who is not always cooking. You’re never gonna find anyone!” And I always used to joke and say, “Oh yeah, it’s true. I’m never gonna find anyone. Someone is gonna find me. So it’s that person’s problem, not mine. I’m gonna go on and give it my all!”
Tamara Littleton 13:16
You do you!
Aretha Sabeng 13:17
In as much as I was enjoying this role, I was still very young, and I was still growing. And at the time, oil was discovered in Ghana, like petroleum oil, and there weren’t enough petroleum engineers, so they were leveraging chemical engineers, because it was very adjacent. And I got a lot of pressure from, like, family, friends, oh, there’s this opportunity in oil and gas. You should definitely take it at this time, I was really settled in marketing, and I loved what I was doing. But also, here’s the thing, I know, we have evolved, but in the past, even my dad thought that marketing was like going to the market and selling. They didn’t understand the whole strategy and execution behind marketing and how innovative you need to be to survive in this space that is super dynamic.
Aretha Sabeng 14:07
So I felt the pressure, and then I took a job in oil and gas, which was a hybrid. It was like account management in oil and gas, so I can put together my chemical engineering and my marketing experience, so I took the job and I left PZ. Sadly, it was so tough for me, because I had a lot of support in that role. And looking back, I have no regrets. Looking back, I was on the right trajectory within the business, but I felt so much pressure, and when I discovered how much money oil and gas was paying, I was like, “Sign me up!”
Tamara Littleton 14:50
Yeah, sometimes you just have to make choices at certain points in your career, don’t you?
Aretha Sabeng 14:57
So I left. I made dollars, and was a lot of money. I didn’t know what to do. As a young child that lived alone, I had no responsibility. You can just imagine how much fun I had. It felt so good to have money. I was like, Oh, this is how it feels like not to plan for your next purchase. Okay, okay, I did not know that. So I left, and the way I left, PZ was so shady, I say because, because the senior management was so good to me, I didn’t know how to leave. And so I waited for the MD to go on his vacation, and then I sent my email and I ran!
Tamara Littleton 15:43
We all make interesting choices.
Aretha Sabeng 15:46
Again, still, a child at this point. Still, you know, try, everything’s forgiven. Everything is forgiven. Oh, I know we, I had, I, I met the MD, I think we, we’re still in touch, by the way, just so, you know, yeah, we still have a very good relationship. And so I ran, and I went to this consultancy, and I ran account management for them, and I was deeply frustrated like that aside, I felt like there weren’t enough growth opportunities for me and any room for me to expand. That was the first thing I noticed, just in my first month, and then in my second month, the account we had, which was based in Aberdeen, wanted a chemical engineer, so there was not a lot of pressure, but everywhere I turned it was like, “Oh, you need to take this job. You can go on the rig. We will train you.” And because I knew it wasn’t what I wanted, I wasn’t playing ball, basically. And because I wasn’t playing ball, it was like the conversation kept coming up consistently, and he was like, “This is what I want to do. I want to do marketing, leave me to do my account management stuff. I want to travel. I want to see the world. I want to meet people. I cannot be away from everyone for three months.”
Aretha Sabeng 16:58
After the third month, I was like “No, I need to get out”. Because one thing I always commend my mother for is her ability to guide you in making the right choice when you go to her conflicted. My mum said, “you’re young now, and you can course correct more than when you get older”. So what she told me was, “if you want to course correct, then you need to sit down and decide what you want, what drives you. This is the time you can work for passion, because when you start having kids, it’s not passion that will drive you, it is the money that will drive you. So decide now where you want to go.”
Aretha Sabeng 17:36
And so I decided, and I thought I really, really want to do marketing, and as serendipity would have it, within that same week, I got a call from a local manufacturing company, and then they said about an interview. I left the consultancy for oil and gas, and I took a pay cut, and this is the last time I would ever do that, and I came back to marketing. I would never take a pay cut now, because I have kids, right? Before, I didn’t so I could hustle my way through, but when I came back, I felt so fulfilled, even with less money, and I had to match my lifestyle to what I was earning and still stay within my goals, because I have big goals.
Aretha Sabeng 18:23
And then I came back to the local manufacturing company, and I worked there for two years, amazing people. I have been blessed with working with amazing people throughout my career. I am not going to take all the credit. I will say it’s because people really are open to helping and teaching me. I worked there for two years, and one day on my way back home from work, I got a call and a lady said, “Hi, we’re recruiting for L’Oreal, and your name came up. So I’m calling to set up an interview.” And my first instinct was, I’m okay, where I’m at, so I’m not looking to change jobs. And she’s like, “Oh, but let’s set up the interview, and then we’ll go from there.” And I was like, okay, so I came back, I told my friend, and she’s like, “are you crazy? You love beauty. Like you are working, you live for beauty.” In addition to, like, my chemical engineering career, one of the careers that I wanted to be when I was growing up was, like a beautician, because I will braid your hair, I will do your nails, I’ll do your makeup. I love doing that, that “you love beauty. L’Oreal is the giant. You better pick up the phone and call this lady now before I call her for you, because you’re going to take that interview whether you want the job or not”, and I’m super grateful to her for pushing me, and so I called her back, we set up the interview, went for the interview, and I basically got a job at L’Oreal.
Tamara Littleton 19:47
Thank you for sharing that is a great story of how you’ve got to where you are now.
Wendy Christie 19:54
I love that, and I love how different things could have been. You could have been on a freezing cold oil rig in the North Sea for three months at a time. I’m sure there are no regrets. Thank you for that. So let’s go a little bit further back, if you don’t mind, Aretha, and talk about your childhood and how those experiences and your environment may have influenced where you’ve got to now. So what would you like as a child?
Aretha Sabeng 20:27
I mean, if you ask my mother, she would shake her head all the way, because I think as a child, I never conformed to the status quo, and that came across a bit as a rebel. And so I think my mum just didn’t know what to do with me, because, just to give you a bit of a background, I come from a deeply blended family. And if I say blended family, my mum had three kids, my dad had three kids. They came together, and then they had me and my kid brother. So I’m at the point where I have brothers and sisters from either side, and then we come together to form this family.
Aretha Sabeng 21:15
I will give my mum a big kudos, because growing up, I have realised that it wasn’t easy. What she did when we were younger, bringing everyone together. I would say her husband’s kids, her own kids that her husband didn’t father, and then kids that her husband fathered, and brought all of us together under one roof. I am the seventh child. So as the seventh child you can understand that by the time everything triggered to me, I think by the time my mum got to me, she was already tired from the six others. So that gave me room to, I think, to be who I wanted to be, and to also push back on the status quo. One of the examples I’ll give you is like everyone back in the day, and I’ll keep referencing back in the day, because I know we have evolved a lot as a people. Back in the day, you would train your girl child to be prepared for marriage, right? And I would always say, why are you not training your boy child to be prepared for marriage? Because the marriage is not just between. Now you can marry who you want. So if it’s between two women, then hip hooray. But if it’s between a man and a woman, then how is he not trained? And I’m trained.
Aretha Sabeng 22:30
They would push me to cook all the time, and I’ll tell them I’m gonna marry a chef. She would tell me like, for example, I told you we lived in one city and I lived in another city, it was a five hour drive on a very lonely road. It’s like a highway connecting two cities. And my mum will tell me, point blank, “do not drive from Accra to Kumasi when you’re coming to visit. Take the bus.” And she will just be like, chilling one evening, cooking, and I’ll just pull up, beep, beep, and she will start crying. She’s like, “you’re gonna kill me one day. How do you drive on this road?” And at times, it’s like, 1am-2am and I’m driving alone on this road, and she’s like, “Stop! It’s dangerous!”
Aretha Sabeng 23:18
So as a child, I feel like I did give my parents a lot to think about, and at times I felt like they didn’t just know what to do with me. It’s not because I was a difficult child or disobedient, or any of that I was actually I would conform when the rules made sense, but I always like questioned when I did not understand what was going on, and was like a foreign concept to my parents, because they had other grown up kids, and I was very stubborn. Um, I will go get it if you don’t get what I want, I am negotiating. I am bringing you new proposals, like, I’m not backing down, because I felt like with my position, I had to go the extra mile to kind of be heard, but at the same time, being in that position also, you know, gave me the room to be daddy’s girl, because my daddy was very strict on my other siblings. But when I grew up, we started building an amazing relationship. Because, you know, I think at some point, I don’t know, I think at some point they had a meeting and they said, let’s give her room and let’s see what happens. Let’s see if we can buy back some peace of mind. So I would say that’s like, you know how I was as a child. I was a kid. Like everything. I was like, why? And my kids do it to me, and I want to, like, “Karma!”
Wendy Christie 24:41
Was that how you were at school as well?
Aretha Sabeng 24:43
Yes, I was very curious. I was very curious. I wanted to explore a lot. I would raise up my hand all the time. And even till today, I’m always happy to raise up my hand. I’m happy to be part of a solution, if not a solution, if I can, if I am able. I’m happy to raise up my hand. And in school, I was super curious. I will ask all the questions. I think it was evident in like, you know how I learned? I’m a very interactive learner, and I took a lot. I’m sure you’ve noticed that by now, I introduced myself for 30 minutes. I was highly experimental and curious, and that’s how I learned. I learned at engineering, because I remember one time I took my dad’s radio and I broke it apart because I wanted to see what was inside. So he gave me like the space as well. I mean, out of the frustration to be like whatever I wanted to explore, and I was never afraid to try something new and stand out. I was never like that as a child.
Wendy Christie 25:37
And you, this is sort of coming back more up to date, probably through kind of university and early career and later career, have there been genuine humans who you’ve come across, who’ve really supported you or encouraged you or influenced you over the years?
Aretha Sabeng 25:52
Oh, my God, it takes a village. It takes a village. Again, I have in no way arrived at where I want to be, and the kind of goal I have set for myself. When I tell people I am still at Ground Zero, they’re like, What do you want to do? I’m like, I’m not going to share that with you, because you’re going to say I’m crazy. But from my childhood and from where I grew up, and from where I’m coming from. And the opportunities I have come a certain distance, and there have been truly genuine humans who have helped me get there. And I cannot mention everybody’s name. I cannot call out everyone.
Aretha Sabeng 26:36
I mean, let me start by saying, If you and I have had any encounter, and you know yourself, because I try to be very appreciative with people, and I let them know what they have done for me if we have and I do not call out your name. Forgive me. You’re still genuine. I still love you, and I still appreciate everything you did for me in my life. I think the first genuine human I will definitely call out or genuine humans would be my family. They are so supportive. And my mum, whom I look up to a lot, that woman, is a force. She was everything. And you can tell she genuinely was there for everyone, as much as she could be there for everyone. And she wasn’t the kind of mom to tell you what to do, but she will guide you through where you need to land, so you feel like it was your decision. My mum, my dad, my siblings, all of them genuine humans. We keep saying our family is an open family. We accept everyone. I have given birth to two kids, but I have three kids because my third child, who happens to be my first child, said, “I love your family so much. I just want to be your child” when she was supposed to come work for me, I couldn’t officially adopt her, but everyone knows I have three kids. Actually, it’s her birthday today, and I absolutely love her, and she loves our family, and it’s because she entered this family where everyone was genuine about our feelings, we fight a lot. My husband would say Christmas in your house is a movie. I love it. Let’s go again. So that is where I’ll start from.
Aretha Sabeng 28:21
And then also, if I come to my own family, one absolute, like genuine human who has impacted my life, like beyond comprehension, is my husband. I want to build a family and build my career. Those are two impossible things to do, and I’m trying to do this at the same time. And my husband, he understands. He genuinely supports me without question. We understand each other, um, which, by the way, you remember when they were like, “Oh, you’re not gonna find anyone”. Someone found me, and it’s been the best. We celebrated our 10th wedding anniversary this year, and
Wendy Christie 29:06
Congratulations!
Aretha Sabeng 29:07
Thank you so much. And again, I’m not saying we’re perfect. We fight, we go through all of that. So he’s very genuine. And then kicking off like from my, my, my career, I would like to call out the MD and the commercial director who actually gave me my first shot in marketing. It was Jim Jackson, “hi!” and Angelos Kollias. They are genuine humans. They gave me an opportunity and a follow through to make sure that I succeed in that opportunity, I would say I worked with so many amazing and incredible people.
Aretha Sabeng 29:44
One of such is the HRD, who took care of the programme when I started my career. His name is Sigismund, and he’s late, and so may he rest in peace. All these guys ensured that I got, like, the boost I needed to kick off.
Aretha Sabeng 30:03
And then also the team in my second manufacturing job. His name is Tanal Gandu. And then coming back to, like, in Ghana, for L’Oreal, it was a lady I worked with in PZ Cussons who got an opportunity in L’Oreal. And when we’re looking for brand managers, she was like, you definitely need to speak to Aretha. She is the one that put my name forward, and I got a call from Paris, and her name is Shirley Acquaah-Harrison. Shirley, we have separated now, but she was a big sister. She was a big sister, and she really also did support me throughout my journey.
Aretha Sabeng 30:39
The person who recruited me finally to L’Oreal. His name is Christian Nyassa. He was just the best. The interview was one of the most fun interviews I had been on. We had so much fun at the interview. We launched so many products. We did so many marketing plans and strategies. And then I remember when I got out to leave, he’s like, You know what I’m gonna talk to? HR, I think you got the job. And that was, like, one of my most iconic moments in an interview.
Aretha Sabeng 31:04
And then throughout my journey, you know, we had an executive, MD whose name was Jean-Dominique de Ravignan. He’s French, amazing. He was the one that gave me my first opportunity to launch Maybelline in Ghana. I launched Maybelline in Ghana. The category didn’t exist. He gave me the opportunity to build that category from the ground up for five years the day I took on that challenge. I found out I was pregnant eight weeks later from the day I took on that challenge. So throughout the journey, I was having a baby, I actually had my baby within a month of officially launching Maybelline. So when I look at my daughter, I’m like, It’s been 10 years! And it was John Dominic who gave me that mandate and supported me. Because, mind you, once he gave me that mandate, I became a new mum, and he still supported me, and I did not lose anything, even taking a chance to, like, have a baby.
Aretha Sabeng 31:58
And also within L’Oreal there was a finance director who made it her mission when I started growing and I started moving into more general manager roles, she made it her mission to educate me on finance. She would take me to her office, and she will show me how to manage a, P&L, what to look out for, where my inclusion is, what’s, SG&A, how do you manage this? How the business functions? How do we interface with Paris? Everything? Her name is Irene, and she used to call me Crazy Aretha. She’s like, “You’re so crazy”. Like “You do anything, you’re crazy!” She is in L’Oreal UK now.
Aretha Sabeng 32:34
One gentleman that I’m also super grateful for, and even though he’s left our group, he’s still till today, remains my biggest coach. His name is Sekou Coulibaly and this is the gentleman who became MD later in Ghana. And when I started working with him, he kept telling me, “you need to be expatriated. You have to be expatriated. You have what it takes.” And he saw it, and he’s like, “I’m going to help you network. I’m going to help you set up meetings. I’m going to help you.” He and he did and he connected me to the right people. And so again, it takes a village I have.
Aretha Sabeng 33:09
I can never claim that I did this on my own, and that’s why I met Virginie Diaz-Tagnon, the HR director, who set up the interview for me in South Africa. And then my boss, Noah young hing or not only did she not become my manager, but she also became a very strong support system. She’s like, you’re here. We’ll support you again. I keep saying I have been more than blessed to have so many genuine humans. My village is so strong and so healthy and so positive. They always support me to get to the top in South Africa.
Aretha Sabeng 33:42
I also want to say another genuine human is the HR director who helped me process me out of South Africa to the US. Her name is Patricia Bacquet. Oh my god, the cutest HR you’ve ever seen in your life. She’s so pretty and so warm. And the first time I met her like, oh my god, you’re so motherly, even her hugs feel different. Like it doesn’t feel like office hug, it feels like home, home hug. You know she’s here, she’s intentional, she’s present, she’s looking out for you. She guided me, and she was just amazing. So I would like to shout her out as well.
Aretha Sabeng 34:17
And then the team who were receiving me in the US. Hello. Jessica Verges, Dom Pagnanelli, amazing. My current HR, Mathias, they have been super amazing. My current managers, Ali Fakih and Yaritza Caraballo, they’re so amazing. We have so much fun. And I always say that I spent, you spent, and everybody spends the good amount of the good part of the day at work. So it should be a place where you feel your best and then you can give your best.
Aretha Sabeng 34:51
And globally, I have really genuine people also following me and helping me and supporting my career. We have a global HRD for CPD, our division. Her name is Ava Azoulay. I appreciate that woman so much. She has such a huge position, you would think she would not know you by name. Again, very intentional, very present, very there and then.
Aretha Sabeng 35:15
My most favourite person of all. His name is Jean Claude le Grand. He was voted one of the most influential leaders on LinkedIn last year, and double the votes from the person who came in second. I was like, this is a true representation of how intentional this man is about every single talent. And mind you, he’s managing over 80,000 talents across the world, and everyone feels seen, imagine the type of capacity and influence and intentionality humans have to do that. So these are some of the genuine humans.
Aretha Sabeng 35:54
And outside of my career, there are people who have helped me that have really impacted my journey, like my friend Michelle in the US. She is a professor at NYU and her husband, Henok. Henok is my unofficial career coach in navigating corporate, and he’s amazing at that. It’s been super amazing, and I cannot not mention Linn, your own Linn Frost.
Tamara Littleton 36:26
Linn Frost is just superb.
Aretha Sabeng 36:27
Oh my God, I have known Linn for less than three months and or four. I think the amount of impact she has had in my life feels like someone I have known like, forever. I mean, I can go on and on and on again, I intentionally did not mention any names in my family because I don’t want to fight later, like, why didn’t you mention my name?
Tamara Littleton 36:52
Well, you, you have to promise me that when this podcast goes out, that you’re gonna tag everybody.
Aretha Sabeng 36:57
I’m gonna tag every single one. I’m gonna tag every single one, because I want to take this opportunity to express my heartfelt and deepest, deepest thanks to these people, because it truly takes a village, and I am truly grateful that they are in my village and they are driving me. There are some of them who challenged me when I feel like I have arrived, they’re like, “no, you just turn on the ignition”. What do you mean? Keep going. And I need that. I need the ones who are correcting me in love, the ones who are correcting me with an iron fist. I need all that. And it’s just, you know, a buffet of that that makes my experience tread in the right trajectory, and I’m truly appreciative of everyone.
Tamara Littleton 37:40
That’s incredible. What an incredible crew around you, and because obviously, the podcast is Genuine Humans. We’re going to get to this stage now where we’re going to go to fast, quick fire questions, because we just want to uncover… I feel like we’ve got to know you so well already, but let’s just try and get to know you just a tiny bit more. Wendy, do you want to kick off with the first question?
Wendy Christie 38:14
I would love to, so what’s your idea of a perfect weekend?
Aretha Sabeng 38:17
Spending time with my family. The bigger, the better. I want everyone here. I always wanted a big house so everyone can come in on a Saturday. We chill, we cook, we eat, we fight, we drink. That’s my ideal weekend.
Wendy Christie 38:31
Love it. How would your friends describe you?
Aretha Sabeng 38:35
Oh, my God. Can I read? Please?
Wendy Christie 38:38
Yes, please, yes. So you asked, you went out and asked people, didn’t you?
Aretha Sabeng 38:44
I did. And, you know, I came back to you and I said, this is purely therapeutic. It’s so therapeutic, just just as you said. So I’m gonna read and I’m gonna go really fast here. I’m opening it now because I want to read it verbatim, and I don’t want to miss a word, so I sent it to and I chose three of my friends, including my husband, and I want to read it quickly, because he’s my friend, too, and I wanted to know what he thought of me. So the first one is Siobhan, whom I worked with, and we became friends, and I’m just gonna read quickly. I asked him, you know, please tell me how you describe me. Please be candid. And in three seconds, literally, he writes the powerful potion you never knew you needed in your life, an addictive force, a soldier, an undeniably phenomenal woman. I’ve learned the most impactful lessons in my career from you. When I say you’re my sister, I don’t say it lightly. I have worked with others 10 times longer, and I’ve worked with you, and they haven’t even been as 5% as impactful as you have been. My jaw dropped.
Wendy Christie 39:56
That’s incredible, isn’t it?
Aretha Sabeng 39:57
and that is why I was like, “I’m going to read this verbatim”. So remember I told you about one of my genuine humans, Michelle, who is the professor at NYU. I reached out to her, and she goes, “Wait, I need to go home and send you a whole thesis, because I cannot type whilst I’m working.” And literally, she sends it on a Saturday, and she goes, “you’re someone who loves deeply and shows it with real, tangible actions. You make sure that people in your life feel seen, valued and supported, and always, always, in capital letters, show up when your friends need you the most. Girl you live so boldly you refuse to live life small. When you walk into a room, folks will know Aretha is inside the room, not just because of your presence, but because you bring energy, passion and unapologetic love for life. You’re a hustler. You’ve carved out success through hard work and just playing smarts. You never wait for permission to go after what you want. And this also extends beyond your career. You’re incredibly intentional and dedicated as a mother, on the wife, friend, daughter and executive, you always follow through on your word, and then go above and beyond what you even said. You’re incredibly creative. You turn small, plain things into beautiful art, creativity is truly at the heart of who you are. Most of all, you’re a force of nature. You move through the world with so much love to give and receive, so much determination to win at life, and unshakable commitment to make life as beautiful and full and meaningful as possible.”
Tamara Littleton 41:39
Oh, wow. I’m glad she took the time to write that.
Aretha Sabeng 41:42
I know I was like, wow, and I can show you it was like a whole thesis. And then I have one of my friends turned sisters. I asked her also, and she writes, “you’re a strong, resilient and driven woman, intelligence and determining all you pursue a vibrant, social and warm hearted wife, mother, daughter, sister, colleague and friend, your purpose fuels your growth and always seeking to evolve.” I would say all these really warmed my heart, and I saved my husband’s own for the last. And I don’t know if I’m allowed to like, say everything my husband said, because he started with, “you’re sexy”. And I’m like, we need “aaah…”
Wendy Christie 42:26
say it!
Tamara Littleton 42:27
Do we need to just leave you to it?
Aretha Sabeng 42:31
And I’m like, “Ah, dude, this is a podcast for executives in a corporate setting!” And he’s like, “I don’t care, you’re my wife and you’re sexy.” I’m done.
Tamara Littleton 42:39
Genuine Humans. Carry on.
Aretha Sabeng 42:41
I know he’s like, “you’re a sexy, elegant, kind woman who is full of life. One thing I like about you is you can’t keep things within you. I would always trash the issue. You must speak up or you will break down. Like, I can’t keep things within me. I must speak up or I will break down. Therefore, I’m always confident you have nothing against me. You only have love and support and admiration for this family. When you have something against me, I will know because it will show, because it will break you. I always tell people that when they see you, oh, my goodness, they either love you or they don’t. There’s no in between in your case, because of your confidence and what you stand for. After almost 11 years of marriage, I still count myself as one of the luckiest ones, and I wouldn’t change anything about you.”
Tamara Littleton 43:38
Oh, that’s really beautiful.
Aretha Sabeng 43:40
I must tell you, and I have to be genuine, because this is genuine humans with you. It felt so good to read that, yeah, because I live my life every day, not expecting people to tell me these things, and thank you for encouraging me to you know, it’s good to ask for feedback. It doesn’t always have to be something I need to work on. It also can be something that I’m doing very well.
Tamara Littleton 44:02
I feel like everyone should do this as an exercise that is very, very heartwarming.
Aretha Sabeng 44:06
I think it’s very good, and I’m gonna probably extend it to more friends.
Tamara Littleton 44:10
Yeah, absolutely. Just keep going. So here’s a good one. What would be the tagline on a poster for a movie about your life?
Aretha Sabeng 44:19
So I’m going to borrow my mother’s nickname for the title poster for my movie, and it’s called no limit ninja.
Tamara Littleton 44:29
No limit ninja. I love that, okay
Aretha Sabeng 44:33
No limit ninja. My mum had no limits. And I think that would be the title of a poster to the movie of my life. Like no limits, no limit.
Tamara Littleton 44:42
Yes.
Wendy Christie 44:44
If you could be remembered for just one thing, what would it be?
Aretha Sabeng 44:48
Hmm, that I lived a full life and I loved it deeply.
Tamara Littleton 44:52
That’s a wonderful answer. I feel like we’ve covered a lot today. I just want to say thank you for being with us on the podcast. It’s been just so joyful. And is there anything we’ve missed? Or I’m going to let you just have the closing thoughts.
Aretha Sabeng 45:10
It’s just one thing you missed. I wanted to, I wanted you to ask me if I have any regrets, so I can say, no, none at all.
Wendy Christie 45:21
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