Lauren Spearman: Chasing newness – Transcript

Tamara Littleton  00:12

This is the Genuine Humans podcast brought to you by Social Element. I’m Tamara Littleton

Wendy Christie  00:18

And I’m Wendy Christie

Tamara Littleton  00:22

In our podcast, we’ll discover the stories of the leaders behind the brands and the trailblazers who are making a real difference in our industry. We’ll delve into how they got to where they are today,

Wendy Christie  00:33

and we’ll hear about the genuine humans who supported and influenced them along the way.

Tamara Littleton  00:44

Welcome back to Genuine Humans, and I’m here with my lovely cohost, Wendy Christie, Wendy, how are you doing?

Wendy Christie  00:50

Hello, I’m just getting over the 100-year cold. How are you doing? I’m going in the right direction.

Tamara Littleton  00:50

It’s been about two weeks, hasn’t it?

Wendy Christie  00:59

Yeah.

Tamara Littleton  01:00

Well, it’s gonna, it’s gonna bring a little bit to the podcast, I think. So it’s all good. So we’re also extra happy to welcome a very special, genuine human guest, Lauren Spearman, and she’s joining us today. Lauren has previously worked at Sky, Benefit and made.com and is going to talk about that as well. But Lauren is a brand consultant now and a content creator on TikTok, which I want to hear all about. Welcome to the podcast, Lauren Spearman.

Lauren Spearman  01:28

Thank you both for having me really excited to be here.

Tamara Littleton  01:31

Well, we’re going to jump straight in. And I want to hear about your early career, if that’s alright, and how you got into the industry, and also then bring us up to speed with what you’re doing now.

Lauren Spearman  01:44

Yeah, absolutely. Now, I accidentally, I guess, fell into the industry. I actually started after I left uni. I actually worked for the National Blood Service. I was a PA and a receptionist, pretty terrible at both, but I left uni, I think there’s a lot of pressure on us when we’re super young, to know exactly what we want to do at 18, at 21 and I just wasn’t that person. And having recently turned 40, I still don’t know, I still don’t know what I want to do with my career. So I did a stint at the National Blood Service, which I loved. I met some great people.

Lauren Spearman  02:17

And then eventually I got called one day from a recruiter who was like, “Oh, I’m recruiting for some roles at Sky, sales roles.” And I was like, “Oh, I don’t, I don’t want to sell sky boxes. That’s I would be terrible at that.” He’s like, no, it’s actually selling advertising. And I lived in Manchester at the time, and I yeah. I was like, sod it, I’m just gonna go for the interview. And met the two people that would be my boss. I had kind of two bosses, and they were wonderful. And I was like, I still came away from the interview not being sure what the job was, but okay, I just really want to work with these people.

Lauren Spearman  02:48

So I ended up working for Sky up in Manchester. I was in the TV sponsorship sales team, so I was an assistant in the team, and yeah, we would go out to agencies or brands directly to sell TV sponsorship, and I learned a lot. It was such a wonderful place to work. I was there about a year and a half, two years, and then I came back home for the weekend. I’m from Chelmsford in Essex originally, and I was like, “What am I doing up in Manchester?” I moved there having known no one and I’d met lovely people, but I just felt like something was calling me back down south. I spoke to my bosses, and I was like, I don’t want to leave the company, but I just know that I don’t want to live in Manchester anymore.

Lauren Spearman  03:29

So they very kindly spoke to someone where I transferred to the digital team down there. And at the time, this was a very big thing to go from TV into the digital “The Internet is going to be the big thing. Go chase that!” And I think as I probably go on, chasing kind of newness is probably a theme throughout my career. So, yeah, I moved down. I stayed another year and a half at Sky, and eventually, kind of transitioned out of selling TV sponsorship into digital advertising.

Lauren Spearman  04:01

And then, when I was at Sky, we looked after third-party sites as well. So two of those sites were Netmums and Baby Center, and I specialised in selling advertising for those. And then I think I was probably about 25/26 and my kind of, I look back now, and it was complete ignorance, but I was like, “Oh, I’m sure there’s better jobs than this. Maybe I can try something different.” And looking back now, I realise what a great employer Sky was, and I speak really fondly of them, I’d have nothing bad to say, but I think I was just ready for a change.

Lauren Spearman  04:31

So I joined a startup. I’d gone from Sky, which is obviously a huge corporation, to a startup where there were four people in the business, and the startup was selling advertising still, but for fashion and beauty blogs, this was back in like, 2009/2010 I think. And I remember going to brands being like, “there’s these new things. They’re called bloggers, and they’re, you know, the way to get your you know, brand in front of people”, and really having to sell in what a blogger was, which now sounds ridiculous. But, you know, 15 years ago, that wasn’t the case. So I worked at that startup for a year, and I just, I think I never quite felt comfortable in the role, and I just don’t think I was very good. I think, if I’m honest, I think, you know, I felt like I was blagging the whole time. And you know, when you have that feeling in your gut every day when you go to work. I was like, “I’m gonna get found out. I’m just gonna get found out.” 

Lauren Spearman  05:25

Luckily, my old boss from Sky got in touch, and she was like, “Netmums are taking their advertising in-house. Do you want to come and work with me?” And I was like, “Yeah, of course!” What’s the interview process? She was like, “No, I I’m offering you the job. Do you want to come over?” So I did. I stayed at Netmums as the sales manager there for four years. I loved working there. It was I’m sure we’ll probably come on to this later on, but I have been so fortunate to be surrounded by so many amazing women in my career. And the founders of Netmums were absolutely that they were so supportive, really championed us. We were doing really well sales-wise, and it was just like, such a nice, nice job. I had a great boss, and we’re still in touch now. She was fantastic. As my leaving present, she bought me The Secret. Have you ever read that book?

Tamara Littleton  06:10

Oh, no.

Lauren Spearman  06:10

It’s really good to read. I was there, yeah, I was there four years, and then I kept going to meetings with brands, and I was like, I want to sit your side of the table. I just think. And I was working mostly with, like, brand managers client side. I was like, I don’t quite know what your job is, but I know I’m interested. So I went home and made a list of companies that I really admire from the outside, you know, as a customer and one of them was Benefit Cosmetics. I always thought their marketing was just so kitsch and fun. And I just thought, what a fun place to work. And I noticed I followed the head of digital on Twitter. This is back when it was okay to use Twitter, and I just reached out to her, and I was like, “I’m really curious about your role. What does it involve doing? What does the team look like? I’m thinking of changing careers.” And she was really kind and sent me a bit of an overview of what her role does and what the team does. And then about six weeks later, she came back, and she was like, “Are you interested? Are you still looking for a job? I might have something.”

Lauren Spearman  07:07

So that was a kind of in there. I still had to go through the interview process like anyone would, but I got a role there within the digital team, and I was then overseeing paid social which that was the kind of connection of the advertising side of things. So I joined the team. Saw a bit of a gap when I was there for some influencer work. So again, this was like 2016, so yeah, influencers were a thing, but still nowhere near as established as it is today. And they were gifting influencers products that was about it. And I thought, “hang on a minute. I’ve got a bit of experience in the influencer world, I can see that this is where, you know, there’s a new area of marketing that’s kind of coming out here, and I want to get involved in that.” 

So I offered to write an influencer strategy and kind of ended up leading that for a couple of years. And it was so fun. I think my background in sales meant I loved to negotiate with talent. Whenever we were working on commercial projects, I was like, right, roll my sleeves up, and “let’s have a chat about money”. And I just love those conversations. Did all sorts of weird, wonderful fun. We worked across everything from social, yeah, so organic social, paid social. We helped with influencer events. We did all sorts of really, really fun stuff. 

Lauren Spearman  08:18

And then about three years in, I think I naturally was chomping at the bit to head up a team. Felt like I was ready, and there was only so much I could talk about eyebrows. 50% of our content had to be about eyebrows.

Tamara Littleton  08:33

Was that a target? You had an eyebrow target?

Lauren Spearman  08:37

You get creative. We once set up a series called Extreme Brows. So the notion was that you didn’t have to go to extreme lengths to do your brows. You can just go to a Benefit counter. So we ended up doing this series on social. We did a Facebook Live every couple of weeks where my colleague and I did our brows in extreme situations. So we genuinely did a Facebook Live abseiling down a building while doing our eyebrows. Oh, my God, jet ski. We did these stupid things, but it was very good fun. And so I kind of used my tactic of approaching a brand directly for the role to help get my next role.

Lauren Spearman  09:15

So I had, not long before, bought my first flat, and just like anyone who buys their first flat all of a sudden become obsessed with interiors, and spent so much time on Pinterest, it was ridiculous. And I saw made.com at the time, the furniture company, they were all over the Tube, always really heavy Tube advertising. And I was like, “this seems like a brand that I am interested in.” I was a customer, so I had a bit of an unconventional approach. I was like, “How can I make a contact there?” And it seemed quite seamless, rather than asking for a job.

Lauren Spearman  09:49

So I pulled together a pitch where I pitched the team that Benefit and made did a collaboration of furniture for dressing rooms. So, you know, we were seeing beauty influencers have big, beautiful dressing rooms, mirrors, lights, all kinds of sorts, dressing tables. And I was like, that could be my in. It could help me make a contact. So that’s exactly what I did. I went in and had a conversation like, in hindsight, they were never going to go with it, but it just meant that I had a few connections within the business. So then, yeah, within a few weeks, there was a role that came up, and I used that as a bit of a kind of hook in my cover letters. Say, “look, this is how I’m really interested in working working with made. This is what I’ve done previously.”

Lauren Spearman  10:32

And yeah, that got me an interview. And it was really interesting because I am, I mean, I talk a lot in my content on TikTok about in the interview process. And I think I absolutely flustered the first one, but I addressed it in the second I think, I think I very much realised that the woman interviewing me for the job at made would have been hiring lots of experienced heads of and I think when you’re stepping up from manager to head of a department, that can feel like a big jump. So yeah, I addressed that in the interview, and I was like that, I will not be the most experienced person you interview, but I know I’ll be the most passionate. 

Lauren Spearman  11:03

And I was there for three years. And so I loved that job. I was so passionate, and ambitious. I headed up influencer marketing there. I got a promotion to head up socials as well, and then I got another promotion to head up the PR team. So I ended up managing three teams, around 30 people in total. And then, yeah, eventually I felt like it was naturally my time to leave.

Lauren Spearman  11:24

I thought right, I’m going to challenge myself. And I thought, “have I worked for really good brands? Like, am I a good marketer, or have I worked for good brands?” And so I was, I’m just going to go to a much smaller brand and see what happens. And I went to a pet insurance company. So, my kind of view was, that no one cares about insurance, but they care about their pets, right? So as a marketer, you absolutely tie up, pull on those heartstrings, that emotional connection. So I joined there as Head of Comms, and under a really wonderful CMO, who unfortunately left within about four weeks of me joining the business. Yeah, I think it kind of became quite apparent that I don’t think the business was quite ready for my role yet. So as part of a restructure, I wasn’t hit with a restructure, but I kind of put myself forward and said, “Look, I think, you know, I don’t think this role is right for me. I don’t think it’s right for the business, where the business is at the moment.” So yeah, I handed in my notice after three months, which takes a lot of soul-searching to know if that’s the right thing to do. I think we often see this thing of like, you’ve got to stick a job out for a year, even if you hate it because it will look good on your CV. But I think I realised that if I stayed for a year, I wasn’t going to get anything worth putting on my CV.

Lauren Spearman  12:38

So yeah, left that. I left after after six months in total, because of my notice period, which brings me to last summer, where I was like, I’ve got all this experience, I’ll easily find a job. That did not happen.

Tamara Littleton  12:52

It’s been tough, yeah 

Lauren Spearman  12:56

Queen of the silver medal! You know, got down to the final two for a few roles, but always kind of picked at the post of that classic someone with more experience, but actually in that, in that experience of job searching, I found that hiring practices, the quality of the process has really kind of fallen down. I was getting ghosted a lot. I was having first interviews and then nothing. I was not getting feedback. I was waiting, sometimes months in between interviews, and I just thought Something didn’t feel right.

Lauren Spearman  13:25

I also noticed a massive rise in tasks as part of the interview process, which I totally understand. When you get to a certain level, there’ll be some kind of task presentation. That’s fine, but there were, in some cases, people asking for tasks just to apply for a role, and also not tasks that I felt were appropriate. So the final kind of straw for me was, I was at the final stage interview for a role, and they asked me to do an entire marketing strategy they wanted, then a full campaign plan, a full SWOT analysis of all their competitors. It was there’s basically five different tasks. 

And I think initially I was like, “Okay, do you know what? I sod it, I’m going to do it. I want a job. It’s fine. And then I pushed back, and was like, Can you give me some of the supporting material? You know, if you want me to do some analysis, can you give me some campaigns you’ve done or something and analyse? And I was just told, No, just go with it.” 

Tamara Littleton  14:16

This is like, free consultancy without any information.

Lauren Spearman  14:19

Yeah, absolutely that. And I just, I felt so alone. I was like, “how have I got this experience?” And I felt a lot of shame that I wasn’t able to get a job. So I just turned to TikTok one day. I’d, I don’t know what came over me, but I just made a video saying that I’ve pulled out of a role today because I was asked this, this and this, and I just something in my gut didn’t feel right, and that video got a couple of hundred thousand views, and I was like, “oh, maybe I’m not alone, and maybe there is something here.” And a lot of the comments were like, “I’m experiencing this.” And I just started speaking up about my experience.

Lauren Spearman  14:53

And I think within six weeks, I gained something like 15,000 followers. And I was like, “oh, okay, this, this is definitely not me, it’s part of a wider, wider problem”. So yeah, I just became very vocal very quickly about the process, and just accidentally fell into being an advocate for improving hiring practices within the marketing industry. So what then ended up happening was my job search turned into a five-month job search. And actually, I was offered the chance for some contract work, and I was like, sort it, “I’m gonna go with it”. And that has accidentally fallen into me being self-employed, and I’ve just hit just over my one-year anniversary.

Lauren Spearman  15:35

Now, I have learnt so much in the last year, then probably I have the last few years combined, about myself, about what I want to do with my career, and also, like a very different way of working. I think I’ve only ever known a nine-to-five. So to work on different projects, work with different kind of clients, work different hours. It’s been really interesting. And yeah, so over the last year, I’ve worked with several really great clients, everything from interiors to beauty to tech. It’s been really interesting covering everything from creative direction to looking at brand strategy, and social media consultancy. Social media is absolutely my baby. It’s the thing that I love, and it’s what I’m always coming back to. But I just told myself to say yes in the first year and see what happens, and see where it takes me. See what people hire me for, see what I love doing, see how I like spending my time. Yeah, so now I’m at the I’m at the I kind of had a good first year, and now I’m into that panic of the second year. “Will it be as good? Will I ever work again?”

Tamara Littleton  16:37

That tricky second album stage

Lauren Spearman  16:40

The self-doubt is phenomenal, but yeah, and I know also navigating, you know, I’ve continued to make content about careers on TikTok, and now, more recently, on LinkedIn. And really, yeah, I really want to improve hiring practices. I advocate for salary transparency. I want there to be more care in the workplace. I think we spend so much of our time at work with the people we work with, and it is, you know, we, I think we don’t, we don’t, we can’t separate work and home life in the same way that perhaps, you know, our previous generations could. So yeah, I’ve accidentally fallen into, this huge like, passion of wanting things to be better at work, and seeing where that takes me as well.

Tamara Littleton  17:27

I think accidental or not, is so needed, and you’re starting such an incredible movement. And, yeah, I think it’s all power to you. And I, I love seeing all of your content everywhere, and seeing how, you know, people are picking it up, and you’re being a real champion. So, yeah, thank you. Thank you. I love that, Lauren,

Wendy Christie  17:48

And we’ll probably dig into that a little bit more in a few minutes, but before we do, I’d love to sort of go a bit, even a bit further back. And you grew up in Chelmsford, is that right? So I’d love to hear more about your childhood, what you were like as a kid, and if there aree some of the themes that you’ve talked about, like chasing the new for example, were these things that you could recognise from when you were little?

Lauren Spearman  18:11

Yeah. So I grew up in a very female-heavy household, so I’m one of three sisters, so parents, and three daughters. Yeah, I guess it’s that’s probably sparked my theme of always wanting to surround myself with great women. And yeah, had a very, very happy childhood. I was the middle child, so we can pick that apart if you like.

The middle child’s fine!

And there’s actually quite big age gaps between me and my sisters, which is quite interesting. But we all got on really well. We still got on really well. We’re all very different, but yeah, lots of fun and kind of happy memories. And I think my mum was really ambitious at work, and I think I have definitely taken that, that on. I remember I was very shy as a child, and it’s still something I battle against all the time. So like, anyone calls me confident, and I’m like, “You have no idea how much work I’ve done masking”

Tamara Littleton  19:09

on a daily basis. I feel you, yeah,

Lauren Spearman  19:13

but she, my mum. I remember something she always said to me whenever I was being a bit nervous. She was like, “Hold both my hands. And she’s like, right repeat after me. My name is Lauren Spearman, and there’s no one else in the world better than me.” She would always, like, try and instil that confidence, but it’s still something I think I carry through now, of like, just like that, trying to get that self-belief in myself. Because especially since going self-employed, it’s like been such a mental challenge to kind of think, well, “why would anyone, why would anyone want to hire me?” Or, you know, “there’s so many amazing people, why would they choose to work with me?” So, yeah, that’s why I sometimes still, do that in the room.

Wendy Christie  19:52

Well, why not? You know you are, you know, there is no one better than you.

Lauren Spearman  19:56

Oh, I knew I was going to cry. I feel it coming.

Tamara Littleton  20:00

You know, I learned this amazing thing from social media, obviously, about looking in the mirror and talking to yourself the same way that you talk to your pets. So you just go “look at your little cute face.” If you do that on a daily basis, honestly, it makes you feel a lot better.

Lauren Spearman  20:24

I’ve done that before. Actually, I did years ago. I did some, like, inner child work, where you talk to yourself, you kind of say, What would six year old you want to hear or how would they want to be spoken to? And it’s, I guess it’s quite similar to that, and it’s really powerful, which is probably why I’ve not done it since, because it’s like, oh, it opens up a can of worms 

Wendy Christie

almost too much. 

Lauren Spearman

Yeah, yeah, it’s quite heavy.

Wendy Christie  20:45

And other than your mum and your sisters, did you have other people that you particularly looked up to when you were little?

Lauren Spearman  20:53

Yeah. So definitely, yeah, my parents, my grandparents, for sure. So I’ve still got one set of grandparents. They’re 91 and 90, they’re just phenomenal. I think the theme of kind of family life was always humour. So the way we dealt with anything and still do is always humour. And even more recently, my little sister last year got diagnosed with cancer.

Wendy Christie  21:16

I’m so sorry

Lauren Spearman  21:17

and she’s now cancer-free. But it has been a wild year. And actually, that as you can’t experience, I mean, I obviously didn’t experience first hand, but being, you know, a sister, you know, having that, I think you can’t be close to someone like that, and it not completely change your perspective on life. I think it’s absolutely made me worry far less. It’s made me, you know, embrace change or yeah, kind of stay in the present a lot more rather than worry about the future. But yeah, even when she got diagnosed, like, the way we dealt with it as a family was to bring in humour, which is so it’s so morbid, but also, like how there’s no guidebook on how you handle that is there, yeah? 

Lauren Spearman  21:59

So, yeah. So humour has been a big theme, I guess, growing up as well, definitely teachers. I’ve had some really amazing teachers throughout my throughout my school life, and then women in my career. I think I’ve naturally leaned towards having mostly female bosses. And I, yeah, I’ve had some incredible, incredible bosses, but also incredible peers. I think we, you know, we, we often will talk about incredible bosses, and that’s great, but also just the people that we surround ourselves with on the day-to-day we do the work with. I’ve been fortunate to be part of some really great teams. And I think, in all honesty, going, going self-employed, my biggest fear was not being part of a team, because I love managing people, but I also love being part of a team. I love that camaraderie, I love the bond. I love all of that stuff. 

So I have been quite focused and think a little bit when I work on projects, I often don’t work alone. I bring in people to work with me on things because I think one, we deliver a better quality of work, but also it’s far more enjoyable. And that person that you can just, you know, if you, especially if you’re working remotely for so long, pick up the phone and dissect something, or when you’re having a wobble, have someone to have that conversation with. I think that’s always been really important.

Wendy Christie  23:17

Very much so. And is there anyone in particular that you’d like to shout out for having been particularly influential or helpful?

Lauren Spearman  23:24

I always, I always shout out one woman who always comes to mind is my boss from Benefit Cosmetics. So, Michelle Stoodley, who I am still really close to, I’m actually seeing her this evening. I’m seeing all of the team this evening. She is like such a great example of wonderful leadership. She was really how do I describe her? She’s a really calm person. So I think when you talk about leadership, we often have this opinion of someone really loud and she’s not that. She’s much more reserved, but she has so much passion. She had so much care for us.

Lauren Spearman  24:01

And I saved an email from her, which I think she sent within the first couple of months of me joining the business, and just we had a conversation. I was saying, I think, with any, any new business you join and you’re like, “Oh, it’s so overwhelming”, a new industry, new role, it always takes a little while to bed in. And I think we had a conversation about that. And she just sent me this amazing email that I still, I still really look at now and then as a kind of reminder. And she was just like, we call it the Benefit bubble. “You know, there’s lots to take in. It will take a while. You’re doing great here. Here’s some really good feedback.” And I just thought she went out of her way to do that.

Lauren Spearman  24:36

And I felt like that a lot within our careers, and even when I was there, and there were times where, you know, I didn’t do the right thing, I messed up or made a mistake, or whatever it was, I would never get a telling off, like, we’d obviously have to have a conversation if I cocked up on something. But it was always like, “Okay, what we gonna learn, what we gonna do differently how are we gonna fix it?” And, yeah, I think she, she also had this wonderful balance of. As being, it was clear she was our boss, but also our friend, like, there was this unknown boundary that we always, like, we were always like, friendly, but you knew, never crossed the line. And yeah, she was just really wonderful. So yeah, I think I give a lot of credit to how, what I’ve learned about leadership and how I want to show up as a manager from her, for sure.

Lauren Spearman  25:21

And then also another boss, Niki Herring, who was my boss at Netmums, who I worked with at Sky as well. She was fantastic. She was the one that got me The Secret. But, yeah, she always really championed me as well. And I think the best boss is the ones that aren’t threatened by your ambition. Then you’re, you know, they harness that, and they really push you.

Tamara Littleton  25:41

I’m going to jump back into the sort of the work side of them, because you said that, you know, social media is your your passion, and obviously you’ve been a real, sort of pioneer in the the influence space as well. Do you think that brands have kind of really embraced the power of social or do you think that we’ve still got a lot of a way to go to sort of get brands on board as it were?

Lauren Spearman  26:02

Yeah, I still think we’ve got a hell of a long way to go. I don’t know if you’ve noticed this, but whenever we talk about brands on social doing good, the the same brands will come up all the time, Ryanair, Duolingo, Liquid Death, and they are doing incredibly well. But if we can only name three brands that are doing well on social. That kind of says a lot. And I know,  social media has been around for almost 20 years, but we still see it as a bit of a nice to have. I even had a conversation with someone yesterday who’d suggested to the CMO that they needed, perhaps someone full-time working on social. And their response was like, “Don’t tell me how to do my job.” and it’s like, I think that we see this a lot of we put the most junior people in the social roles, because it’s just like, oh well, they can just dick around on Instagram and post pictures.

Lauren Spearman  26:51

And so it’s why, within the content I make on TikTok, I try to show a different side of social I try to show the thinking behind it, what goes into working with a creative team, the process, the strategy, the thinking, not just the end result. I think so, yeah, I still think I would love to see brands take social a little bit more seriously. And I think this, the brands that are are definitely winning in that space. I think I yeah, I would love to see it even earlier today, I saw an internship that was advertised, and it was overseeing absolutely everything on TikTok, TikTok shop strategy affiliates. And I was like, “this is an internship that you’re giving someone which could be a huge channel for your business”. And yeah, I think we see that a lot. 

Lauren Spearman  27:39

I also think, and it’s a discussion that I’m seeing a bit more recently. The world of social and influencer marketing is very female-dominated, and those spaces often get discredited as and I see it. I see it time and time again when I post social roles. So my audience on TikTok is 90% women, yet when I post about social roles. It’s the men who come through in the comments and absolutely belittle those roles. I have one guy who’s consistently commenting, even yesterday, he was like, “it’s just a colouring-in role”. Well, you know? And I so, and I, I had a conversation with him the other week, I’m just on comments, and I was like, “oh, wait, what social role do you do?” And he’s, “I don’t work in social” Right,  well, you got a lot of opinions on it! And I think there is a lot of like, we’ve kind of almost infantilised social and discredited it as not this thing.

Lauren Spearman  28:28

Also, I think because a lot of people that work in social have fun, seem to be having fun. And there’s also, there’s sometimes a correlation between, well, if you’re having fun, it can’t be work. And I mean working at Benefit Cosmetics absolutely disprove that our company motto is laughter is the best cosmetics. So we absolutely have fun at work, and we got results with it. So I think there’s this trifecta of it being seen as, oh, it’s just a silly little job for women. It is seen as it can’t be, it can’t it can’t be work, because it seems to be fun. And then also just this still an under lack of understanding of what social can do for your business.

Tamara Littleton  29:06

Yeah, and you know, having run the agency for like, 22 years, I do actually agree with you that, you know, I think there’s still, many times I still feel that we are at the early days of the industry, and we shouldn’t be. And I think during the pandemic, there was there was more focus on social as a channel because it became the main channel. So it felt like it was suddenly been, you know, moving up the, up the chain in terms of sort of conversations. But I, I do agree that we’ve still got a way to go, but, but influencer is, you know, it’s, it’s so powerful, isn’t it?

Lauren Spearman  29:43

Oh, absolutely. And it’s interesting when we say talking about a way to go, when I, you know, I talked about the different areas I work in, and I think I as I’ve been navigating what I want to do and what I want to sell myself as, as a consultant. I think at first I was, “oh social media is too niche, and there’s not going to be enough work.” And then, actually, I’m like, when I look at what I do with clients, it’s, it’s not just, I present a one-page deck and off you go. There’s so much that goes into it that actually, you know, dissecting things like, firstly, the strategy, resourcing of the team, operations, all the process, then actually, how do you bring an influencer marketing into that? There’s, there’s so much to get into, and I think that’s that’s kind of helping cement the direction that I want to head in those kind of big, juicy projects, definitely.

Tamara Littleton  30:28

But you’re also still sort of pushing for the industry to change. So in terms of, like, hiring practices, you were talking about that. So let’s get down to the nitty-gritty of like, what are some specific changes that you believe the marketing industry needs to make in its hiring practices?

Lauren Spearman  30:46

Yes, now salary transparency is like probably number one. It’s the thing that I talk about the most. I think it is so beneficial for a candidate when they’re applying for a role to know what the salary is. Yes, we obviously want to hire candidates who are passionate about the business and they’re interested in the role, but we’re also hiring candidates who have mortgages and rent to pay, and are naive to the fact that salary isn’t one of if not the most important part of a role. You know, a job is a job is a value exchange, and I think it’s important that the candidate knows what the exchange is. I think there’s a direct correlation between the effort that you put into writing the job description and the quality of the candidate.

Lauren Spearman  31:26

So it’s really basic things. But you know, when we say hybrid working, what does that look like? Where is the where is the office? Is it fixed? Days in the office? Is there flexibility? Are there core hours, like all of those little things, the more information you can give the more a candidate can see, oh, actually, they want me in the office four days a week, and that’s not something I want to do. Or, oh, actually, they want me in on a Wednesday. I don’t know. Like, for some reason that doesn’t work, whatever that is, it helps you make a bit more of an informed decision.

Lauren Spearman  31:54

I also think it’s really important, and I don’t see many businesses do this, but when we talk about the role, there’s obviously the bumf at the start about the business, but I think it’s really beneficial to share a bit more about the team and the setup. I think it’s great to know who you’re putting into if you’ve got direct reports, how many direct reports can you share what the job title is? Just a little bit of context, so that you know if you are writing a cover letter, there’s just more to like, more to work with, really thinking about the roles and responsibilities, I think one thing I am aware of I see a lot of at the moment is, I wouldn’t say a lack of consideration, but we see these roles and responsibilities. I just think, do you seriously think one person can do all of that and do it well, are you setting the candidate up for success? I think it’s really clear.

Lauren Spearman  32:41

I also know, you know, as a business grows, they can get more specialist roles. So, you know, social role specifically, if you’re hiring one social person, it’s going to be a general social media manager that can do a bit of everything. As the business grows, it might be something a bit more specific, like a strategist or a creator, a content creator, but really, I really think about the roles and responsibilities, and then it’s also really beneficial if you can share what that interview process looks like. Is it a one-stage interview? Is it two steps? Is there an application? Is there a task that might come up at the final stage? Who would those interviews be with? I think the more that you can put into that, the more you’ll get. And we see a lot, you know, the rise of 500 people applying for a job and all of that stuff. And, you know, I don’t think we’re necessarily going to get away from that completely just because the where the market is at the moment, but you can, it’s much easier to disqualify candidates if you have really clear criteria of like, actually they’re based somewhere. They’re never going to be able to get into the office three days a week because they’re based in an entirely different continent, for example. And I think that in terms of the job descriptions, those are my kind of key things that I would say to look out for.

Tamara Littleton  33:47

I can see, obviously, that with the format of the podcast, people won’t be able to see this, but Wendy, our Chief People Officer, is nodding very, very enthusiastically to all of that.

Lauren Spearman  33:58

I always say, Wendy, you know, this way more than I do like I not, I don’t have a HR background. I’m not a recruiter. I’m just someone that has found a real love for –

Wendy Christie  34:06

But I think it’s really important to be talking about it from the other side, you know, from the side, you know, there’s, you know, articles galore from, you know, recruitment specialists or whatever about how to do it, but, you know, you don’t see so much of the experience that people are going through when they’re applying for these roles. So this is gold.

Lauren Spearman  34:24

And I also think, I think sometimes I’m conscious that I come across like I’m real, like the champion for the employee, and I am, but I’m also like, it benefits your business if you get the hiring right. So why wouldn’t you want to put that effort into hiring to get the right person.

Tamara Littleton  34:39

Absolutely and actually, sort of a, sort of another, sort of difficult side of the industry you mentioned about. You know, you’ve turned 40, and what are your views on ageism in the industry, and what that sort of journey last year, you know, the impact it had on you, and your views?

Lauren Spearman  35:00

So I remember very early on in my career, when I was at Sky, I moved to the London office, and I walked into the office, and I think there were like 200 people on my floor, and I just remember thinking, “Where are the women over 40?” And then I was like, “Yeah, well, I’m 25 by the time I get to 40, like, we’ll all, we’ll all be there and blah, blah, blah,” you know, I just naively thought, oh, you know, it’s just historically, you know, that’s something that’s happened or whatever. And then as I’ve got older, I am seeing a real shift. I think, you know, we obviously see people have families and maybe want to change careers and things. But I also see a shift in how, I mean, how, how we’re treated is like, um, any other job, any other industry, having experience is good, whereas I’m especially social, specifically marketing, generally, for sure, it’s almost seen as “well, no, you’re out of touch”. Like, it’s almost like, well, I couldn’t possibly get social because I’m not 22 and it also gives which one is frustrating, because it also like, it’s not just 22-year-olds on social media like my granddad’s on Instagram. 

You know, I find that narrative really reductive. Um, but yeah, the notion that you’re kind of your value drops as soon as soon as you turn 40. You’ve fallen off a cliff. There’s that this kind of slightly invisible. There’s this, like, invisibleness, which I really didn’t expect to feel, and I’ve had it in the comments on TikTok sometimes, you know, no, no one over 40 should be working in social.

Tamara Littleton  35:14

well, they’re wrong.

Lauren Spearman  36:34

I never get upset by trolls, but those comments really, like, get to me because I’m just like, it’s such a ridiculous view, and I think it’s why I continue to show up, just to show up, just as showing up as a woman over 40 like and also I think I kind of it’s why I use I think my age is a blessing but I think ageing is an absolute blessing, and it will never be seen as a bad thing on my parts of the getting older. I think it’s really wonderful. And if I feel like the way I feel at 40 versus 30, if I feel like that at 50, at 60, then absolutely amazing. But I think it’s why I am very vocal about calling up bad practice, because I want, I kind of want to show up as that person I probably needed at 25 and also I’ve got the confidence to say things. You know, we’ve seen Gregg Wallace in the press recently talking about women of a certain age calling out, you know, his bad behaviour. It’s like because we’ve got the confidence to stand up for what’s what. We’ve got the experience to know that that’s not right. So, yeah, I won’t go down a Gregg Wallace rabbit hole. 

Tamara Littleton  37:39

Yeah, don’t get me started. So, let’s just park that. But, yeah, thank you for continuing to use your platform, because I think that’s, that’s the key thing about when, when you, when you do create a platform, and then to use it for good, which is, I know that you’re a big fan of what we’re doing with the make social better. You know, revolution as well. And I think, you know, as long as we all keep holding up a mirror to the industry, that’s when we will see change. So yeah.

Lauren Spearman  38:10

I think it’s like, I mean, it’s, I guess being 40 is this really wonderful place of I’ve got women that older from in the industry that I can learn from, and if I’ve got a problem. They’ve probably experienced it before. So there’s that, but then there’s also, you know, I mentor much younger women in the industry who are telling me their experiences and things. So it’s a really nice spectrum, you know, everyone from 23 to 60 plus within my network, within the industry, which I think is great,

Tamara Littleton  38:36

Yeah, we can all learn from experience. You know, 360 absolutely. So let’s move on to where we get a little bit more personal. And I’m going to throw this back to Wendy with our sort of quick-fire questions.

Lauren Spearman  38:52

Great.

Wendy Christie  38:53

We’ll ease in. So we’ll start with, what’s your idea of a perfect weekend?

Lauren Spearman  38:58

Oh, it would definitely involve travel. So I’ve actually just come back from a couple of days in Margate, which was so lovely and just so super relaxing. I love being near water. Yeah, definitely travel. Probably a European weekend, somewhere nice, really lovely hotel, lots of wine, lots of wandering. My diary during the week is always generally pretty packed. So I love the idea of just not having an agenda and just wondering and seeing where things take me. And actually, one of my I don’t make New Year’s resolutions, but one of my goals this year was to go away at least once a month. And I have, I have done that, and then, well done. The point was maybe a little bit too much. But, yeah, I think I’m quite a creative person. I get my inspiration from lots of different sources, and travel is always, always one of those. So, yeah, probably a weekend away somewhere.

Wendy Christie  39:45

Fantastic. If you were walking on stage, I don’t know, maybe you’re about to do a talk or something, and there’s an intro track playing, what would it be?

Lauren Spearman  39:54

Oh, the song that immediately came to mind, just because it always makes me feel fun and I think it would invoke a really fun feeling and a level of confidence would be September by Earth, Wind and Fire, just like whenever I hear it, it just makes you feel so good. And I think whenever I, I don’t know if you’ve seen Amy Cuddy’s TED Talk, where she talks about power moves, yes, Superman pose and, yeah, all that stuff. And I absolutely channel that when I, whenever I do any public speaking, that’s what goes through my head. And I always tell myself, how do I want to feel when I come off the stage and try and feel that now? And that song would absolutely help that 

Wendy Christie

Love it! 

Tamara Littleton

Now. I know that from sort of following you, I know you’re a bit of a foodie, and obviously you’ve been travelling a lot. Do you have a favourite restaurant or food experience?

Lauren Spearman  40:40

I recently went to my first ever three Michelin star restaurant, and oh my god, it was quite the experience. I, yeah, went to Core by Claire Smith, which was just really wonderful. And so I’m not someone who’s materialistic, like, I don’t spend my money on clothes, shoes, whatever that is. I spend my money on experiences. I love doing things with people. So yeah, that’s been a highlight recently. And yeah, I just love, I love spending my time, like over really long lunches, and long dinners, like having really good conversations with friends, one of my absolutely, like terrible traits is I am an awful communicator on WhatsApp, my friends can go for weeks without hearing from me, but then when I’m in the room and having a like dinner, I’m all ears, my phone’s away. And I think that’s how I connect with people a little bit better. Yeah. So yeah, what I hopefully make up, what hopefully lack in kind of communication skills with my friends I make up for in kind of good restaurant choices.

Tamara Littleton  41:46

It’s a great way to do business as well.

Lauren Spearman  41:49

Yeah, I think it’s why I, it’s why I make video content rather than write, because I just prefer talking and I love voice notes.

Tamara Littleton  41:58

Okay, here’s another one for you. How would you fare in a zombie apocalypse?

Lauren Spearman  42:04

I think whenever I look back on any sign of tension, I’ve always just gone head to head and kind of confronted it. So I think I’d be all right. I think I’d be quite protective of others. And you know, if anything, making content and signing up for kind of bad practices in the last year has told me that I don’t tolerate shit. So yeah, I think I think I’d fare okay.

Wendy Christie  42:24

How would your friends describe you?

Lauren Spearman  42:26

I actually know the answer to this, because I did an exercise last year where I wanted, well, I wanted colleagues to describe what it was like working with me, and fun came up a fair bit. I think I always try to bring humour into what I do if I can. You know, life is too short, so kind of be miserable. So hopefully fun would come, come up there. I think I’m quite a passionate person and fairly creative as well. And I think when we think of creative people, the default is like, either an artist or a designer. Actually, it’s a problem solver. It’s someone that, you know, looks at things differently. And, yeah, I’d say, hopefully fun, passionate and creative.

Tamara Littleton  43:05

And what’s your favourite karaoke song? Do you have a go-to song? I like to ask everybody this, because I Well, Wendy and I love a bit of karaoke. It’s a big it’s a big theme in Social Element.

Lauren Spearman  43:17

And I have quite a lot of karaoke stories.

Tamara Littleton  43:22

Oh, go on.

Lauren Spearman  43:23

Karaoke has featured a lot in my career. So when I worked at Sky up in Manchester, every payday, we would go to Lucky Voice, you know, there’s and we would hire out for a couple of hours as a team, and we’d sing karaoke. And one of the guys, he hit one of his leaving do. He picked a song for everyone, and his dad was a vicar, so he asked me to sing, Son of a Preacher, brilliant and but then later on, when I worked at Netmums again, we used to karaoke loads, and the team would always get me to sing Adele because I cannot sing. I am, I love, I am an awful singer. I love karaoke because I actually never know the words. So to be able to read it is fine. Um, so yeah, I’d always sing Adele, someone like you or some kind of, like Spice Girls, Destiny’s Child. There’s always like, a girl group that I would happily, you know, and get involved in. But yeah, I absolutely love karaoke, any excuse, whenever I’ve done it with you know, teammates, I’m all for it.

Tamara Littleton  44:25

I love that. Fantastic. Lauren has been such a treat to have you on the podcast. Thank you for everything that you’re doing. Thank you for sharing and wishing you loads of luck with with with what’s coming up in 2025 anything that we haven’t asked, that we should have asked, or any closing thoughts from you?

Lauren Spearman  44:44

Yeah, I guess if there’s one thing I’ve learned in the last year, it’s to not be afraid to stand up for what you think is right, and not be afraid to challenge the status quo. I think it can feel quite scary to put your head above the parapet sometimes. I think what I’ve seen is good stuff can come from it. So yeah, don’t be afraid.

Wendy Christie  45:09

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