Tamara Littleton 00:12
This is the Genuine Humans podcast brought to you by Social Element. I’m Tamara Littleton
Wendy Christie 00:18
and I’m Wendy Christie
Tamara Littleton 00:22
in our podcast, we’ll discover the stories of the leaders behind the brands and the trailblazers who are making a real difference in our industry. We’ll delve into how they got to where they are today,
Wendy Christie 00:33
and we’ll hear about the genuine humans who supported and influenced them along the way.
Tamara Littleton 00:44
Welcome back to Genuine Humans, and I am delighted, as always, to be here with co-host, Wendy. Wendy, how are you doing?
Wendy Christie 00:52
I am also delighted to be here. Thank you, Tamara. And yeah, I’m doing good. How are you?
Tamara Littleton 00:57
I have a feeling that I say delighted in every single introduction.
Wendy Christie 01:00
Well, that just is a great description of your general state of being, in that case.
Tamara Littleton 01:05
I’m also delighted. I’m very, very happy that we have got Rachel Moss joining us today, and Rachel is Head of Marketing Strategy at Allwyn the operator of the National Lottery. Welcome, Rachel. It’s lovely to have you here.
Rachel Moss 01:18
Thanks. I say I’m delighted too!
Tamara Littleton 01:21
Now I’m delighted!
Rachel Moss 01:22
And thrilled to get the chance to sit down and chat with you two ladies.
Tamara Littleton 01:27
It’s like when you post on LinkedIn, and it’s got I am humble and proud, humbled and proud to receive this award.
Wendy Christie 01:33
It’s just such a joy!
Tamara Littleton 01:36
I promise I’ll mix it up a bit. Rachel, I want to start with what we love to ask our guests, which is, how did you get to where you are now? And also, if you want to just sort of share what you’re doing at the moment, but just kind of go backwards to how did you get into marketing?
Rachel Moss 01:54
So really, by chance. So when I was studying for my A-levels, I needed to choose a course to do at university, and I was studying French, German and economics, and I realised that I probably wasn’t enough of a mathematician to do economics with French or German, which is what a lot of the university courses offered. I came across this course at Salford University called marketing and modern languages. I was like, “Well, what is this marketing thing?” I said, “Oh, it’s about answering consumers needs”, and in my head at 17, I was like, “I love shopping. Marketing sounds like the opposite of shopping. Maybe I’ll give that a go?”
Rachel Moss 02:30
So yes, I applied to all the other courses you had to, but there was only one course that I really wanted to get on, which was this course on modern languages and marketing at Salford University.
Tamara Littleton 02:42
That is very sort of single-minded, because sometimes people sort of, you know, fall into it separately, so you had that ambition right at the beginning, and so tell me about what happened after sort of doing the course then.
Rachel Moss 02:57
Well, marketing is a massive discipline, and I think it’s gotten even bigger in the last few years with the proliferation of media channels and the different types of things. So if you think when I started marketing, CRM would have meant sending direct mails, and it’s very, very different. I as part of that, course, I did a year out, six months in France and six months in Germany, and I was lucky enough to spend time in the brand marketing department of Guinness before, you know, at the point when they turned into Diageo, and I decided, oh, brand management sounds like the thing I’d like to do. So I was very lucky that my course allowed me to explore that part of marketing. So when it came to leaving university and applying for roles, I went for jobs that would allow me to look after part of a brand, and I ended up moving into duty-free in travel retail, as it’s now called, to a company called Storck, who make Werther’s Original and Toffifee to use my German every day and to be a marketing assistant. And I was really lucky with that role, because of the boss at the time, and I think there’s, you know, great bosses help you grow and develop and move on within your career. He was really clear that the role within this company, in its marketing system, was a two-year job, and within two years, you’d either move on within Storck, which also owns Bendicks of Mayfair, or you’d leave to move elsewhere. And when I also did a placement, worked in Berlin for Storck and they offered me a job in project management. I was like, “I don’t want to be a project manager. I want to be a brand marketeer.”
Rachel Moss 04:32
And so therefore I threw my net out into the wider marketing world and ended up with a role at Kraft, which is now Mondelēz. But it was only through Paul Ridgway, my boss at the time, going, as I went to, oh, there’s a job for this company. He’s like, “No, Rachel, you can do that later on in your career. Don’t do that. Do this.” He was really kind of going, “You know, FMCG marketing grounding is a great place to start try and get into FMCG” and that’s what I did.
Rachel Moss 04:59
I took a one-year contract at Kraft, so there’s a bit of a risk that they wouldn’t renew it after a year. But actually, when I was, you know, what was my early 20s, interviewing for jobs, and I kept getting rejected because I didn’t have market research, or I hadn’t really done above-the-line advertising, but this role at Kraft, looking after their dressings and a relaunch of their dressings would have filled in all the gaps of my CV in terms of research and advertising. So I took it, took the risk, and I stayed there for nearly six years.
Tamara Littleton 05:28
I love that. I love that.
Wendy Christie 05:32
If you don’t mind, can we go a bit further back, even before university, and consider what you were like as a child and how that might have shaped where you ended up in your career? So let’s start by asking, what were you like as a child?
Rachel Moss 05:46
So I guess I’m a number one, so the first girl, I’ve got three younger brothers, so I’ve got that classic trait of being sensible and responsible and a goody two shoes, so I’d always do my homework and all of that type of stuff. But equally, I think, broadly, I’ve had a happy childhood. Had loads of animals. So up until that time, I was seven, my parents had a small holding. So we had dogs and cats and cows and sheep and pigs. So I was, you know, at one with, you know, animals giving birth, but equally getting a cow butchered on the kitchen table. That also used to happen. So quite used to kind of the cycle of life. When I was five, on my fifth birthday, my three-year-old brother got run over, so me and my friends never made it to see Cinderella at the Panto, which my mum always said, one of the reasons I never used to get on with my brother has stopped me going to my birthday party.
But that was probably looking back quite a big moment in terms of building resilience, because my mum, at the time, had my middle brother who was still sort of a baby, still a toddler. She had to look after him. Josh was properly in intensive care. So he was properly run over, you know, lungs, kidneys, ribs, broken, all sorts of things, and was in intensive care for, I think, in about six weeks. So I kind of was moved around. I spent time with my teacher to make sure I got taken to school, spent time with friends and family spent a lot of time with my grandma spent, you know, go school friends with so I kind of had a time, a period of my life, where I was moving around. I can’t really remember much about it, and I remember that there were lots of adventures, because obviously, I’d missed my birthday party because my brother got run over. So, you know, things were put in place to make sure that I didn’t quite miss out on that. But that was a big moment. He’s fine now. So don’t worry, Josh made it, made it through, and he was always more the danger one. So again, he climbed up the tallest tree in the school and jumped off and broke his leg. So, you know, in a hospital. So I was the sensible one.
Rachel Moss 07:54
And then I went away to boarding school at eight. But I loved it. So really, really loved being at boarding school, and particularly as I got older, age 17, it allowed me to do things that no way my dad would have let me go to the pub at 17. Yet school did, like because my dad was probably very, very traditional. So, you know, he didn’t drink. Interestingly enough, he didn’t believe in gambling. Very, very straight-laced. He even tried – his first career plan was to become vicar, and then he realised that maybe that wasn’t the right thing for him, and ironically, went off to fight in Vietnam instead. So he was a bit of an adventurer, so I spent a lot of time with him. You know, one of my favourite presents when I was about seven was a pair of walkie-talkies.
Wendy Christie 08:46
It sounds like you had a really good support network around your family.
Rachel Moss 08:50
Yes, yeah. And I think that’s what families do. And even so, more recently, when I had my son, unfortunately, I had what’s called an amniotic fluid embolism and ended up in a coma. And when I went into a coma, people didn’t know whether I was going to wake up. So again, my husband had to create a network of support. So I think there is something within your life of having a few people around you who you can trust. And it’s ironic, really, because lots of people, when people have babies, think there’s something wrong with the babies, they don’t hear anything, whereas, actually, in our case, there was absolutely nothing wrong with William.
Wendy Christie 09:27
That sounds like an incredibly scary experience. I’m very glad that you’re here with us and alive and well. So coming a bit more up to date, and considering the people that you’ve worked with in your career, who have been the genuine humans who’ve really given you that support or influenced you along the way?
Rachel Moss 09:44
So, like I said, I think there’s something about a great boss, so, in Kraft, a brilliant boss I had was Marie Kirk and who I met up with when I went to New Zealand over Christmas and I had a really difficult meeting when I was working for her, with the marketing director at the time, he was literally shouting at me across the table, and we went back in and before we went back in, she was like, “Rachel, you know, everything, I’m going to set the room up differently so he has to engage with you, and I will sit out of the conversation so you can’t engage with me.” And actually, it sounds like it’s a tiny strategy, but it made the most amount of difference because he couldn’t avoid having the conversation with me. And the meeting went really, really well. And I think I still use where you sit in meetings, meeting rooms is a little bit of a strategy to get the best out of things. So she was one genuine human.
Rachel Moss 10:44
And then when I moved to Premier Foods, I went through a boss called Matt Hunt, who, I guess, uncovered the fact that I’m quite shy, I don’t necessarily showcase what I’m good at. So he was looking for a marketing controller, and I kind of did the interview process, and he’s like, “Oh, wow. I wasn’t expecting this quiet person to be able to do the response to the presentation that you gave in the interview process.” And became a massive supporter of mine. So I think there are things, you know, those types of bosses who don’t just be your boss, but also sponsor you throughout the business and make sure and help you connect with senior leaders. Make a huge difference.
Rachel Moss 11:32
And then I guess, as I’ve and more recently, was working in the National Lottery, my boss, Keith Moore, who sadly died a year and a half ago now, he was incredible in terms of challenging me, stretching me, but also making sure that the opportunities that best suited my skills, almost, you know, came to me.
Rachel Moss 11:55
So I think there is, there’s something about a great boss, and then once you’ve got a great boss thing you can build that almost that wider network encouraged from the conversations with other senior leaders or just stakeholders. I think the biggest thing, one of the things I do is I mentor more in the marketing leadership master class with Thomas Barta & Syl Saller. And the whole premise of that is about leading upwards, sideways and your team, as well as yourself. And I think people also underestimate your peers and the people you work alongside. And so, for example, at the National Lottery, for many years now, my partner in crime has been Anna McAnally, who is an absolute creative genius. And she, you know, I can make good ads, but she can make amazing ads. So there’s a little bit about we, yeah, having that person who pushes and pulls up against you and as a person who can say “your idea is a bit rubbish. What if?” And I think that as well, has gotten me to deliver better work as a result.
Tamara Littleton 12:56
I think there’s a lot to be said for the slightly more introverted leaders as well. I know, yeah, it’s something that I’m sort of particularly passionate about, that we don’t all have to be extrovert loud leaders. There’s a real strength in being sort of, perhaps a bit quieter occasionally.
Rachel Moss 13:12
But what’s interesting is people always go, “but Rachel, you are, but you are. You always speak up at meetings, and you always you seem really confident.” And my team were talking about, oh, what would you like to know about? Well, Rachel, we’d like to learn about building confidence, and we use strength scope. And my strength isn’t confidence, it is actually bravery, and it’s what makes me go actually, I’ve got a point of view here. I need to speak up and drive the change to see it through, not necessarily confidence. So I think there is that you know, just because someone is loud doesn’t mean to say that they are confident.
Tamara Littleton 13:46
Very true, very true. And let’s keep with the work theme. I’d love to know, obviously you’re talking about your FMCG experience. How has that experience impacted on your approach to marketing now?
Rachel Moss 14:01
I am the biggest fan of the four P’s price promotion and place where, you know, that’s how I learned about it when I was reading Kotler at university. But I think that’s what a grounding in FMCG gives you. In terms of, you get to manage the full P&L you get to really think about your distribution. The fact, when you are launching new products, you have to make sure that you’ve got those relationships with your retail suppliers, in the case of FMCG, that you’ve got the distribution in the retailers. There’s nothing worse than falling out with a big retailer when you’re doing a product launch.
Tamara Littleton 14:34
Oh God, yeah!
Rachel Moss 14:34
That can massively impact it, but also making sure that your product is good enough to drive the rate of sale, to keep it on the shelf. So you learn a lot about, I’d say pricing and place, more than you know it’s a great grounding for every part of the marketing, of the marketing discipline.
Tamara Littleton 14:53
And what’s exciting you most about our industry at the moment?
Rachel Moss 14:57
Do you know what I was really thinking about, and you can say the obvious, I think data is still a fascinating area and the power that data can unlock for marketeers in these days, and I think it is not just about data from your customers, but also data from inside the organisation. You know, part of my remit, my team, looks after, you know, the campaign delivery side of things, as well as marketing strategy and just knowing how many assets we’re producing and what shifts we might need to make around the business, because our product, you know, the amount we’re producing, has gone from x to y. So I think data, in its broadest sense, is hugely important.
Rachel Moss 15:33
And you could say AI, and it’s absolutely going to make a difference. The other thing, I think is fascinating is learning and development, and the fact that when I started out, you only really learned and developed if you’re lucky enough with from within your organisation, whereas now we have access to podcasts. There are loads and loads of free courses, whether it’s Thinkbox TV Masters or just lots of things out there.
Rachel Moss 15:58
And also CMOs having conversations about what they’ve learned, what they’ve done, which you can glean intel from to help yourself develop. And I think that’s incredible.
Tamara Littleton 16:10
Absolutely, you touched on sort of some of the ways that you approach work. And obviously, you seem very, kind of aware of your approach, but how would you describe your leadership style and how that’s influenced your career?
Rachel Moss 16:27
So might be a bit cliche, but I’m an authentic leader. You know, I’ve kind of set like to set vision and direction, but equally, give my take on where those gaps might be. So sometimes, when you’re asking people to do stuff, you don’t have the answers, they might not have the answers, and you have to find those answers together. So that’s really, really important, and also personally within myself, I want to be someone who makes a difference. So whether that’s the organisation I’m working for, whether that’s the people I’m working with, and as I kind of progressed to make a difference in the wider marketing community. So you know, whether it’s mentoring people I work with, whether it’s mentoring through the marketing leadership masters, and now having become a member of WACL, having that opportunity to help support women come up through the ranks of an organisation. So that’s a really, really important thing that is about being a leader for the job that needs to be done, but also beyond.
Tamara Littleton 17:30
I’m a fellow WACL member, having just joined last year, and yeah, and still getting sort of grips with it, but it is so good to have a supportive network and, as you say, learning from each other and and pushing the industry forward as well. So thank you.
Wendy Christie 17:49
So now we’re going to move on to the part of the podcast where we get a little bit more personal and ask some quick-fire questions. So let’s start with, what’s your idea of a perfect weekend?
Rachel Moss 17:59
I think I just actually had it. So a combination or one thing’s missing, my dog’s just been spayed, so we didn’t go on a long dog walk, but I did get to hang out with my husband and son, but I also got to have a little bit of shopping time with a girlfriend, so a lovely balance of both. If I think, you know, weekends for me is either about spending time with, you know, family and taking time out, but also, if I mean really selfish, it’s about having a bit of me time doing things like shopping. So to encapsulate it in one weekend with the boys cooking a lovely meal in the evening, and that’s what it’s all about.
Wendy Christie 18:38
If you were walking on stage and there was an introduction track playing. What would it be?
Rachel Moss 18:42
So the last time I walked on stage, I walked onto Taylor Swift, inspired by my son, because on the morning of his 11 plus, he was blasting it out. And I was like, “What a great way to just get yourself psyched and ready.
Tamara Littleton 19:00
I’m going to jump in on the back of that. Then have, you got a karaoke go-to song? Are you a karaoke fan?
Rachel Moss 19:06
So I love a sing-along. But even when I went to a bar in Tokyo where I knew no one had had the opportunity to do karaoke, I was too shy to do it. So…I’ve done a songbox in London, but actually a karaoke, no, too shy.
Tamara Littleton 19:25
Too much, too much. There’s a whole sort of separate story where I accidentally realised that I was in a brothel when I was singing karaoke. I had no idea, I was in Tokyo the funny thing is, I didn’t leave. I was still singing and enjoying myself and just hung out with the women, and we all sang together. So there you go.
Tamara Littleton 19:49
So what are you doing when you feel most alive, Rachel?
Rachel Moss 19:55
I think just doing something I love, whether that’s my job and we mentioned when I was very sick, I was having my son, and when I got home, I realised I had my house, my family and my job and my friends. And actually, that’s what really matters. So if I’m leaning into one of those areas, that’s what energises me and makes me happy.
Wendy Christie 20:18
How would your friends describe you?
Rachel Moss 20:19
So confession here, I had to ask them, and they
Tamara Littleton 20:23
Good! That’s, that’s the therapy bit.
Rachel Moss 20:27
So they said, lots of fun. Gets very excited about things she loves, loves shopping and clothes and fashion and but equally as pragmatic and practical. And I think that’s my child number one, side coming out.
Tamara Littleton 20:44
How would you fare in a zombie apocalypse?
Rachel Moss 20:46
I’d win. Do you know what? I couldn’t watch on TV? If I was watching it on TV, I would be behind the sofa or in the other room, but I have the same thing with blood and wounds. I can’t watch it on telly. But actually, if it’s there in front of me, I know how to deal with it and get on with it. So I’d win.
Tamara Littleton 21:01
I love that.
Wendy Christie 21:03
If you could time travel to any point in the past or in the future, where and when would you go?
Rachel Moss 21:10
The Tudor court, whether it’s the time of Henry VIII or Elizabeth I, I just think that was such a transformational, exciting time in history. You know a bit of Wolf Hall world would be fascinating as long as I didn’t lose my head.
Wendy Christie 21:26
Well, you don’t need to worry about that, because there are no consequences.
Tamara Littleton 21:33
What is your favourite restaurant or food experience?
Rachel Moss 21:37
I’m very much a food-for-survival person, whereas everyone else in the family loves going out to restaurants. So I do enjoy a good restaurant, but I think for me, it’s more about company, and when people come around I’d rather we cooked. I don’t cook. My husband does cooking something less complicated, so you can enjoy the people you’re spending time with, as opposed to worrying about how the dish is.
Tamara Littleton 21:59
That’s really lovely. It’s been such a joy to have you on the Genuine Humans podcast. Thank you so much for being here before we go. Is there anything that we haven’t covered that, or we should have asked you? I’ll leave you if you have any closing thoughts.
Rachel Moss 22:15
Do you know what? When I was going through the list of questions, I was thinking, it’s the one about, what would you tell a 16-year-old you, I think what would I say? And as I reflected it, the thing I’d say is you probably won’t have as many Jimmy Choos – I have zero – as the girls and the chick-lit books you’re reading about do.
Tamara Littleton 22:35
And you’re okay with that?
Rachel Moss 22:37
Well, slightly disappointed. I did think I’d grow up and life would be a world of beautiful shoes and designer handbags, and there are a few, but not as many as the girls in the books. I do genuinely love shoes, but, yeah, I haven’t lived the shoe life that I thought I might.
Wendy Christie 22:58
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